|Author||Thread - Mistral Formula F 2004 review|
|Posted: 25.1.2004 at 16.34|
|Posted: 8.2.2004 at 10.44|
Hve you heard any first impressions about the board also in comparison to the other newcomers??
|Posted: 10.2.2004 at 04.41|
no , not for the moment...
|Posted: 10.2.2004 at 10.46|
OK if you do hear something I would like to hear about it maybe you can send me a mail the.
|Posted: 10.2.2004 at 14.14|
no problem , JW !
|Posted: 15.2.2004 at 12.16|
JW , you have a special report in "Planche Mag " februar 2004 with a test of a few formula boards 2004....
|Posted: 16.2.2004 at 09.32|
Great to keep me updated, thanks. I assume that the test will be in french language yes? I would like a english translation one way or the other, also I do not know how to get my hands on the Planche Mag, can you help?
|Posted: 16.2.2004 at 14.09|
i give you a synthetic translation soon !
|Posted: 17.2.2004 at 14.17|
Thanks a lot, looking forward to it. Send it to my e-mail if you like. (see above).
|Posted: 19.2.2004 at 17.49|
Quite stable under the feet with a good volume, the Mistral is a low board on the water which takes off early planning.
Like Exocet, it is a board which slips extremely with very good accelerations when one releases a few degrees upwind.
Less at ease that Fanatic, Starboard and Bic when it is necessary to notch upwind, it offers a frightening comfort with a good surface of rail in water.
If it lost handiness and " fun " compared to Devil II, it on the other hand gained in support chock. One sails less fuzzy than in 2003.
It is in the light winds that it progressed the most, and especially upwind, compared to Devil II.
In one word : versability but less at ease upwind that Fanatic or Starboard
|Posted: 19.2.2004 at 19.53|
Thanks for the transalation. For all of us who cant read french and find the magasin its very interesting!
Do you think you could also translate a couple of words for the rest of the boards in the test?
Of course not the whole thing, just some sentences to get an idea....?
|Posted: 20.2.2004 at 00.17|
for tomorrow , no problem !
Starboard F 158
|Posted: 20.2.2004 at 17.17|
Thanks lionel, very interesting!
|Posted: 20.2.2004 at 19.41|
Thanks a lot. This is what surfers around the world should do for each other, reach out and help, all in the same policy that MYTRIMS is about also. Go with the FLOW.
Any conclusion in the article about what board is better then the others in which wind and waterstates?
Is there also notification about the wind and waterstates that the boards where tested in with what sails (size and Pryde or Gaastra or...). Also who tested them? Are they known surfers? What fin id they use for testing?
A lot of questions but important to know how to 'weigh' the significants of the test and its results.
Thanks big time,
|Posted: 21.2.2004 at 02.48|
Test Conditions :
spots : Marseille , Fos sur Mer , Marignane (South France )
See : choppy water (90cm)
Sails : 2 Pryde RS 3 11.7m
Fins : 2 select Dc 03 Wide medium
Men of the test : (experts )
Jc : 1m85 ; 82 kg
B : 1m73 ; 85 kg
A : 1m80 ; 98 kg
Wind : 6--20kts
the continuation later !!!!!!!!!
|Posted: 21.2.2004 at 15.42|
the best :
|Posted: 21.2.2004 at 17.57|
I know his is what the testresults say but there was a significant difference in the performance of Phil on the starboard and Steve on the Fanatic, going upwind and ownwind, so I guess that during this season we will see that the the star is better upwind and the fanatic better downwind. just wonder where the mistral will end. Still I figure that the differnces in the boards are far less important then the pilot. We'll see what happens next at the midwinter and Schoeler comp. right now.
|Posted: 22.2.2004 at 00.46|
in the test , the 3 men find the F 158 better upwind without discussion with a great difference face to the other boards , it's really amazing...
In Sidney , don't forget the fact that Phil (if he is a good racer...) was 40 years old without a lot of training !
Downwind is more physical...
Shoelcher after 2 races today :
1--Wojtek BROZOZWSKI F 158
2--Michael POLANOWSKI F 158
3--Gerald Pelleau F 158
|Posted: 22.2.2004 at 14.34|
sorry ! (by phone is not easy ...!)
the results after two races in 10 to 20 knots. 31 racers on the starting line.
Wojtek BRZOZOWSKI Star-Board 158/Pryde : 1, 1
Gérald PELLEAU Star-Board 158/Pryde : 3, 3
Brian ROGILD Star-Board 158/Pryde : 2, 5
Patrice POIRRIEZ Star-Board 158/Gaastra : 4, 4 Michael POLANOWSKI Star-Board 158/Pryde : 7, 2
Erwan JAUFFROY Mistral F2004/North : 5, 6
Rémi VILA Star-Board 158/Tushingham : 6, 8
Tom NAGY Ahd/Pryde : 10, 9
Antoine QUESTEL Ahd/Pryde : 14, 7
Julien ANGEVIN Mistral F2004/Pryde : 11, 10
|Posted: 23.2.2004 at 09.25|
No problem, just keep giving us the info.
More news about the article?
|Posted: 24.2.2004 at 01.16|
the rest of the test in a few words :
Bic 1.5 :
it's the board with more volume in the category and less compact , rather for heavy rider...
miss nerve in light wind , good speed downwind.
Exocet T 100.2:
performance in withdrawal vs 2003 in light wind , upwind is not easy because position of the rear straps is shifted under the wind .
very at ease in choppy water.
versatility but very physical in medium, high wind.
very good performances upwind and downwind.
Starboard F 158 :
Incredible speed and angle upwind , very comfortable in all conditions.
Good accelerations but speed more linear than Mistral or Fanatic.
|Posted: 24.2.2004 at 01.33|
Got the chance to sail the f2004 in light (8-12k)breeze this w-end in san francisco.
After sailing the devil2 last year I noticed quite a difference right away. The new board certainly seems to be able to search more, ie find its groove by heading up or down in the puffs and lulls. I was using a r12 70 m in flat water and could really notice that I could work my back foot more and not spin out. It definatly had a nice feeling when locked in upwind.
Also noticibly different are the footstrap placement..further out on the deck..a good feeling to be out further!
One thing for sure that I wasnt pleased about (as is typical of many boards coming out of the cobra factory) is the irregularity of the depth of the fin box. All of my fins stick out 1/8"-1/4" from the bottom of the board.
Otherwise pretty sweet setup with the new wide sleeve norths. The 11.7 has way more range than last years 10.9.
|Posted: 24.2.2004 at 08.58|
First to lionel,
Thanks man it's great that you invest your time in this, much appreciated.
Welcome in this thread, can you comment some more on the downwind stance? I loved the DevilII for it's comfort downwind because the back strap was a bit more inboard. Is it now more tiryng??
How tall and heavy are you?
What set-up did you start on for mastfoot and straps? Are your findings from sailing with others or only by feel?
Last question, is the board riding free and up or more flat and a bit sticky maybe?
Sorry for all thes questions but hope you will respond. Thanks
|Posted: 24.2.2004 at 20.42|
I sailed the f2004 board on sunday for an hour by myself then with another local sailor on a ml101 for another hour and a half. The breeze was pretty light on the sf bay at 6-12k and flat water.
Downwind I was comfortably in the outside straps but caught my back foot in the water a few times as I tried to get in into the strap after a gybe. The back strap is definatly further out but in the light wind it seemed fine. I am 6'-4" and 175 lbs. I had the track at '0' and foorstraps in middle position.
The set up I was using was definalty faster than the other guy I was sailing with but the main variable, I think, had to do with a bigger sail. I was on new 11.7 and he on last years 10.9.
I havnt quite found the board to be sticky but more so loose in the sense that it can change angles and not loose much speed-perhaps that is credited to wide sleeve sail as well.
|Posted: 25.2.2004 at 09.27|
i'd like to order new F2004 11.0, but i haven't heard nothing about it.
Could you tell me something about its range?
I'm 178cm tall and 72 kilos.
P.s. With WarpIII 10,9 it was for me from 6 to 20 knots.
|Posted: 29.2.2004 at 18.21|
Some more time on the f2004board and 11.9 proto.
My new sails (11,10,9) dont arrive till next week so I wont be able to tell about the 11.0 range until after next weeks race in florida. Although Seth, one of the north testers say the the 11.o has amazing range!
5 or 6 of us lined up (mostly on ml 101 board but different rigs)
I had a new c3 f s2 fin and it was fast..a little lower than what I was used to with the deb's but over the course of a few minute beat upwind, I could tack and cross the guys that were pointing higher but sailing slower. That fin really likes speed and like I said before the new board seems to have lots of range to find its groove upwind. I put on a bit more downhaul than before (550 mast with 38 cm extension as was about 1cm from block to block and that seemed to help in the higher puffs as I stayed powered up but not too stupidly powered. Also have to note that the new sails dont choke as much when you crank on the outhaul like the used to. The deep draft stays low and forward even when block to block on my booms (sail not touching boom at all.)
Downwind I chickenout a bit in the chop and had my foot in the middle of the board for some more control..definatly giving up speed but when things calmed down a bit a jumped to the outside strap again and the board heated up similar to that of the ml 101. I can definatly feel the range downwind as well as this board accelerates and can be really driven down in the puffs. My initial feel was that it could go deeper but I wasnt pushing enough.
Some small spinouts upwind with the c3 loosing all the ground I just gained but I think that will get better with more time with the fin. Although adding a flapper does seem like a good idea now. I did add one to the d2 and it have less of theose little spinouts. I will try to get some pics up of the new sail asap
|Posted: 10.3.2004 at 20.40|
Some more observation on the new f2004 board and sail:
I didn't find as much upwind angle with the r12 70 med on the new board as the old one...the c3 f soft works well except in the real light stuff when your not powered up.
The 11.7 has great range..only jumped on 11.0 once when it looked like it was heating up but then the wind backed off again and I switched back to 11.7 next race.
|Posted: 11.3.2004 at 09.15|
Just keep us updated, do you register your sessions at mytrims??
Still have not received my board yet. Hope it will soon so that I can start training and tuning. Just have two fins to use; deb R13soft and C3 F (normal finnish). Any clue what to use when? Will be sailing with the Nitro 5's.
Again, what is your lenght and weight (in cm's and kg)? I'm 176cm and 80kg..
|Posted: 12.3.2004 at 00.37|
Havn't registered yet.
Regarding fins for the F2004:
The c3f seems to be best when its well powered and in rougher water. It's angle comes with its speed.
The r13s might be better all around fin for the holes and puffs but it doesn't seem to have the top end speed compared to the c3. Another good fin for the light air might be the r15. Have you tried this fin?
I am 1.9m and 72kg.
|Posted: 12.3.2004 at 09.32|
thanks for responding. No I do not have a r15. Only the two mentioned fins. Also read that Gonzalo only used 66 cm fin at Calema and 10.7 sail. The board must give tons of lift then when you can be competitive with only 66....
Keep us updated.. I will also as soon as I get my board. Hopefully this weekend we will be sailing again to get the first hours of training under my belt..
|Posted: 15.3.2004 at 08.50|
Finally got out on the new 11.0 north with the f2004 board for 3 sessions this w-end. Wind was up and down from 10-18k. Board and rig combo really seemed to have a good advantage in the light stuff as it walked away downwind. Again angle is hard to keep up with c3 fin but that is because Ive been sailing debs for 2 years. It just seems to be a different approach to getting angle.
At midwinters, Gonzalo who was sailing the same board (F2) seemed to make it work with a r12 66. Alot of guys here on the ML101 are also sailing with smaller fins (66 r13's) and going well upwind.
Overall though the new sails is really easy to rotate (finally!) and has some fantastic range. I am downhauling just under the recomended range on the sail as my sail has yet to set and stretch in.
|Posted: 15.3.2004 at 23.00|
I wonder how many of us (mytrims members) will sail the new Mistral F2004. At least:
I'll sail it with Formula Warp 12,5 and Warp III 9,8 and 10,9. (mayby new F2004 11.0 and 10.0). Ice is gone on late april I hope..
|Posted: 16.3.2004 at 09.20|
I'm a bit dissapointed that you forgot me already..
I will be sailing the new F2004 Mistral with the new N5 Gaastra's. Fins will be R13 soft and my last years favorite C3 F 70.
Hope to get the stuff soon so I can start tuning. First sailing hours last saturday with my old gear.
|Posted: 16.3.2004 at 11.59|
Sorry Jan W...!
Mistral F2004 riders:
Usa4, North F2004
Jan W, Gaastra N5
Heikki, North Formula Warp/Warp III
|Posted: 18.3.2004 at 09.10|
HAve you noticed also that the topriders of F2 sail theboard mostly with a 66 cm fin instead of a 70?? They don't need 70 cause the advantage in pointing ability doesn't equal the greater speed that is possible with a 66...
Now I do not have a 66 or so, only 70 fins. Maybe I will have a problem now...
When will you receive your new material and when do you expect to start training on the water?
As soon as I have my first sessions on the new board (and the new sails) I will try to comment. A friend of mine bought my devilII so maybe we have the opportunity to really side by side comparing. We'll see.
|Posted: 18.3.2004 at 16.44|
I will be sailing with Mistral F2004 as well. I´ll have 2004 NS 11,9 and 10,0. I asked from Boogie (C3) best fins for me, but have not get the answer jet. Right now I have R12 70S. I hope to get on the sea in two weeks. Next week I hope to get my new sails. I noticed already icefree spots in the sea :)
|Posted: 18.3.2004 at 21.28|
Great we already have four F2004 riders! What about Ukko, are you going to update your board and others?
Usa4, North F2004
Jan W, Gaastra N5
EST555, North F2004
Heikki, North Formula Warp/Warp III
I guess that season starts on late april (hopefully sooner..) in Finland. I'll have devil II also for my father so I can make comparisons too.
I invested in R13 70 cm fins last year. I still have M, M+, H, H+. Mayby I should order 66 or 68 for F2004...Is anyone interested in buying the H+ - it is too hard for me.
|Posted: 21.3.2004 at 21.17|
OK, new board is in. I got it saturday. No sailing yet.
One thing is the finbox. usa 4 also mentioned it, the box is not nice. I have some kin of bump at the front and do not know what to do about it. I think I can file it away with sandpaper and then get the fins in almost perfectly BUT is it OK with the box.
Does anyone has expermented with this??
|Posted: 22.3.2004 at 02.52|
I also had a finbox that looked like resin dripped in. I sanded the fin a little and then sanded the box a little and the fin fits now.
This is my first formula board. Can anyone reccommend a good fin. I have a finworks 70 But I am sure it is not that fast. I have only ridden the board once in good conditions. I live on the Chesapeake bay and in the spring and fall it either blows like hell or not at all. The day I rode it I was planing in about 6kts with a 12.5. It is so nice to sail in lite wind.
|Posted: 22.3.2004 at 06.59|
The c3 f soft fin works well for me with the new f2004 board. Other people at midwinters had sucess with the r12 and r13 on the f2 board (same board/dif. graphics.) Also interesting is that fact that smaller fins (66cm) are doing just as well this year on board.
It has taken me some time to get used to the c3 f but with more time on the water it is a really fast and I am finally able to get some better angle.
Ironicly the boards best point was supposed to be its light air performance but over the w-end here we had some nice breeze (15-25k) and it really went well both upwind and downwind in the breeze and chop. I noticed a big difference right away downwind as it is able to go pretty deep. On Sat. I was well powered with the new north 10.0 in 20k+ but never too overpowered like a buddy I was sailing with on a formula warp 9.8.
Sunday I sailed the 11.0 in some gusty conditions and I feel that this sail will be my bread and butter sail this year as the 9.8 was last year. It has way more range than last years sails. Downwind the sail really pumped well - even in the harness!
Still a bit difficult to get in the outer straps downwind when its hairy as they're further outboard but going inboard to the chicken strap is a little slower but you can go deeper.
Thats my 2 cents so far...
|Posted: 22.3.2004 at 10.09|
How do you like new 11,9? I have 10,0 and 11,9 sails and my weight is 95kg (209lbs). What you think, should I have 11,0 as well or is 11,9 ok for my weight? Please comment your track settings for different wind and water conditions and sails.
|Posted: 22.3.2004 at 17.00|
Where do you have the straps positioned?
|Posted: 22.3.2004 at 21.37|
Team F2004 is growing:
Usa4, North F2004
Jan W, Gaastra N5
EST555, North F2004
Heikki, North Formula Warp/Warp III
If we all used the advanced mode in session reports we could learn from each others effectively. I'll add a link how it looks in our own sail reports.
|Posted: 22.3.2004 at 21.39|
Ive used the 11.9 at the midwinter race in Florida 2 weeks ago in light wind (up to 14-16k.) It did have alot of low end grunt..moreso than the 11.0. I definatly noticed the extra horsepower downwind. Since Ive been back in SF Ive been sailing the 11.0 and found it pretty good in conditions up to 20k and down to 8 knots. Under that the 11.9 would proabbly be better for me. As you can see there is defianlty an overlaping range between these 2 sails. I am closer to 78 kg (176 lbs) now.
Conditions here in SF during our racing season are 15-25k so I am leaning more on the conservative side to my quiver (9.0. 10.0 and 11.0) The 11.9 was a proto I used for the midwinters and probably wont use it again for racing (unless I come to Europe and its light...6-15k range)
I have been sailing with my mast at +1 and +2 in the windier conditions.
Regarding my straps, I am not sure about this as I took them off when I traveled with the board after the race and have put them on in a different configuration and its tending to bring the nose of my board up more than before. I will let you know when I find a setup that works better.
Ive posted some photos on this site as well as my own (www.stevebodner.com) of the new sails.
|Posted: 22.3.2004 at 21.40|
Here is a link to the thread about trim parameters that help us to share the trim information http://mytrims.com/forum/index.asp?topicID=973&fboardID=10 and here the trim report example http://mytrims.com/mytrims/sailreport.asp?sailID=37&uID=2
|Posted: 23.3.2004 at 04.36|
I am using a neilpryde 12.5 and a 9.5. I know there is a gap in there but that is all that the budget will afford. Is there a reason that I do not see any of you on a 12.5. I know using it is like lifting weights. But in the summer here, Hatteras is the only really windy spot. Also any pointers would be welcomed since this big sail is new to me.
|Posted: 23.3.2004 at 07.28|
I use 12,5 too. Conditions here in Finland are mostly very light so 12,5 is necessary and brings a lot time on the water compared to e.g. 11.0.
Usa4, North F2004
Jan W, Gaastra N5
EST555, North F2004
Chadperkins, Neil Pryde
Heikki, North Formula Warp/Warp III
|Posted: 24.3.2004 at 08.10|
The new board really seems fast off the breeze. I was really powered up today on the 10.0 in 18-25k. My booms were low and the mast forward to +2 to 3. My adj harbess lines were at their shortest position at 24". Once I got settled in upwind, it was a comfortable ride. It just seems like getting yourself locked into position is the key in the breeze. I am going to start experimenting with some other fins, namely the r12m again and r14m.
How is the r13s with the new board Jan?
The fin box is a bit of a pain to sand out but after 30 min of seanding with a round batten and sandpaper I got my fin to go tight into the box.
|Posted: 24.3.2004 at 20.59|
I have not yet had the opportunity to sail with the new board. Next week we will have summertime and then the evenings will be light longer so with some win I will start training more. My first attempt will be saturday but the wind will not be very strong ... just keep my iners crossed.
Can you please tell where you sail your straps?
Hope to get my new sails soon as well then the training can really start.
|Posted: 25.3.2004 at 06.40|
My straps are positioned in the middle position but my front foot wants to twist forward more. I have been sailing with my mast at +2 to compensate for the upward pull from the front of my board.
One interesting thing about the new north sails is minute downhaul adjustment...too much and the sail feels twitchy downwind. I hadnt really noticed it but a buddy whos been on the 10.0 more than me said he really noticed the difference when it was windier. I rigged my 11.0 with the wrinkle just past the max mark and and the rig was harder to control downwind. I came in and eased 2cm off and it was easier to sail off the wind.
All in all I think I would have been more effective on the 10.0. In a race, the extra distance I would have gained would have been offset by the extra time it took to make my tacks. There is an overlap in the range of sails, and I guess the the key to deciding what to sail is where you are in tha wind range and how comfortable you feel sailing really powered up or how effective you can be with a smaller sail.
I also sailed with a c3 e 70cm fin today. It felt easier to sail in the breeze than the softer c3 f I have. Heeiki-wasn't it your conclusuion that it's easier to sail the stiffer fins in more wind?
|Posted: 25.3.2004 at 14.20|
Nice to read all about the new North sails. I have ordered 10, 11 and 11.9 but not gotten em yeat.
Last year I used the 9.8, 10.9 and 12.5 combo.
This year I am going to use them on SB158 and last yaer I sailed the Exocet L99.
I am 173 cm and weight about 70 kg, so I am rader small.
10.9 was my most used sail last year on competiton and 12,5 most used for practice. With the 12.5 I got going really early and had loads of fun planning on the water but was not that fast as on the 10.9.
For this year I was thinking of taking the 11.9 out om my quiever but was afraid of loosing time on the water.
Steve, what mast are you using for the 11.9 ? 5.80 or 5.50 and why are you using it.
|Posted: 25.3.2004 at 18.39|
I have tried 3 different mast on the 11.9. 2 different 550's and a 560. I think the 560 works best with in that sail given its mast bend and length.
The bottom shape of the sail, including mast bend is definatly effected on what extension you use as well. Here are some early conclusions from rigging with various extensions from a friend of mine:
"As long as the base fits tightly into the mast and with at least 8" of base extending into the mast, the xtn bends very little and causes the bottom to the sail to be fuller. If the mast is rigged higher on an xtn with less xtn into the base of the mast, the sail seems to have less shape down low. Also, with a longer mast and short xtn (though the mast that is longer that I'm using measures softer) there seems to be less bottom shape also."
As you can see there are many variables involved: mast, sails, fins, boards, booms. Its almost overwhelming! You just need to pick what you think is going to be right for for your predictable conditions and get comfortbale with your gear. As they say... its not the arrow, but the indian!
Regarding dropping the 11.9.. I would say drop the 12.5 instead since your so light. The overlap between the 11.9 and 12.5 is prob the smallest of them all. Unless you sail and practice in conditions that are under 10k, the 11.9 might be a better choice. Try posting your question on the north forum as Micah may be able to give you a more accurate answer.
|Posted: 26.3.2004 at 14.20|
You are certain that yuou are sailing the new mistral?? You say you have your straps in the middle but I have four holes not five or three, so what is the middle one then (hihi) I think I will first opt for the front middle holes and work from there. All the way back is to extreme I guess.
Hope to sail tommorow, weather forecast is not clear about wind expectations so I hope it will be on the + 8 knots side. If I sail I will certainly report here. Thanks and have a nice weekend.
|Posted: 26.3.2004 at 20.42|
I took some pics today of my footstrap position.
I am not using the straps that came with the board but rather ones from the imco board...a little less bulky and more comfortable. Otherwise the you can probably match my settings for a start.
The back straps are as follows: front screw all the way forward. Back screw, one from the back.
I will try moving the back screw of the front strap forward to see if that helps bring the nose down. I tied to correct that my moving my mast forward to +3 in the breeze and chop. Maybe now I will be able to bring it back to +1
|Posted: 28.3.2004 at 10.01|
usa4, yes it was my conclusion that a stiffer fin works better in choppy and windy conditions (please see my fin test thread http://mytrims.com/forum/index.asp?topicID=1035&fboardID=10). There however is a limit for stiffness. For me it was H+ that did not work upwind for me. When it is really windy it is the easiest fin to ride and saves a lot of strenght (with DevilII), but it is difficult to get it going a good angle upwind. That is the reason why H (Custom Deboichet R13 70) is the stiffest fin I used. We'll see how things are with F2004.
I didn't have a possibility to play with rake angle yet, but it is my mission for this season-to learn more about the world of fins..
|Posted: 29.3.2004 at 09.30|
First session last saturday on the F2004. Very light winds so no real test yet but first impressions are good. Biggest problem was to get onto the plane. Far more difficult the on last years DevilII. So after gybing or tacking the getting going was though. Mayebey I need to go for longer streches this year to avoid the getting going again as much as possible.
Hope to sail again tommorrow.
|Posted: 29.3.2004 at 20.17|
Got some light air sailing in as well on saturday with 4 other formula sailors on the sf bay. We did informal windward leeward courses. I was on 11.7 with base at +1 and front straps moved forward so my foot was angled towards the front of the board. My booms were relitivly high at forhead level and I had c3 fx 70 cm fin. There was no problem with the front of the board getting lift even with the puffs up to 14-16k. Moving the back screw of the front straps seems to have helped.
I have found that the board is quick to pump on a plane w/ the 11.7. It really has alot of extra h.p. and more low end grunt that the 11.0. The pocket is deep down low and so big up top it only took 1 or 2 pumps of leach to get up and going. I was faster in all conditions but esp in the lighter stuff when the 11.0's stopped planning ;) I rigged it on the 550 with a little less downhaul and one notch in on my hpl.
|Posted: 30.3.2004 at 12.54|
Did you use 2003 11,7 or was it 2004F 11,9? I thought that this year is 11,9 not 11,7. Have I missed something?
|Posted: 30.3.2004 at 19.42|
Your right the f2004 is a 11.9. I was using a prototype that is marked "11.7" Essentially it is the same sail except for the white scrim on the luff instead of black. Look at the pictures I posted from midwinters
|Posted: 30.3.2004 at 19.42|
Your right the f2004 is a 11.9. I was using a prototype that is marked "11.7" Essentially it is the same sail except for the white scrim on the luff instead of black. Look at the pictures I posted from midwinters
|Posted: 2.4.2004 at 21.28|
I am really starting to like new north big sail (11.7/9) in the just above planning conditions. I am convinced it of its low end more so than the 11.0. We have been having some light wind here this week and the 11.7 was out 3x, the 11.0 once. So much depends on how you pump the sail up onto a plane. I have seen guys just struggeling to get their board up with small pumps while I bear off, hang my weight down and really get the clew of the sail to come in and out a few times and I get up immediatly. I got the r12 70 out again to test and it felt better upwind although I was sailing against Soheil on the 158 who was having trouble upwind.
We start our summer series next week in SF and despite having a much better feel for the board and sail, I am still in question about fins. The c3 f soft really seems fast but just doesn't get the same angle in the really critical situations as a debocheit would. When you are just to windward with an another board on you leeward hip, I would much prefer a debocheit that you could just grind up a bit and not loose you speed. On the other hand, if I am to leeward and have the room to be able to foot off, get some speed and come back up, the c3 is sweet. Now if I could only carry my fin quiver with me and make a switch on the water (r 12 in the light flat water, c3 f soft as it heats up a bit and some more chop, c3 e hard as it gets windier, and finally the r14 m when I turn the corner downwind.)
Are you guys still in hibernation up in northern europe or have you gotten you to test anything yet?
|Posted: 3.4.2004 at 01.33|
I just am starting the training with my new equipment and sure do not have that much of time as you seem to have to TOW. You can ead my sessions and that's all for now. The N5 sails are not yet working teh way I want them to but hack I only sailed them once.
The board is OK but we only had really the stronger winds are no wind at all. Maybe tomorrow we will have some normal 12-14 knots and i will start switching fins (from C3 F to R13 soft) Would like some more angle but to much variables have changed to directly know where to look for so I will get there step by step. Also will swap the straps to the most forward stance and get some spacers in the sail. Before real tuning starts I need to be normaly comfortable with all the parts itself. So much to try and explore .... so litle time.
Will be back
|Posted: 3.4.2004 at 20.01|
Have been out sailing my new 158 a couple of times but with 03 sails as we have not recieved our sails in Europe. Norths latest information is beginning of April, so we hope to get them next week.
Will get back to you with more questions and input when I have tried the sails.
// Dala //
|Posted: 4.4.2004 at 11.36|
..my home bay http://mytrims.com/beach/beachgallery.asp?beachID=1 is still covered with 40 cm ice...hmmm
|Posted: 4.4.2004 at 22.17|
SF bay is still cold but no ice, just lots of short boarders and kites to watch out for going upwind and downwind. We had a stellar day of 20+ yesterday with gust up to 30. It was a good chance to break out the f2004 9.0, although they consider it a slalom sail this year, I will be using it as my high wind formula sail. The sail handles great and with such a short boom (compared to 11.0 and 11.9) it gybles and tacks easily. As with the first time I rigged the 10.0, I rigged according to the recomended numbers for the luff and as you can see from the picture I added there is still alot of space (7cm) left between the mast base and stramlined pully on the grommit but the leach was opened to the mid point on the marks. After a few times sailing the 10.0, the sail streched a bit and I was able to rig to the recommended numbers. I am assuming the same thing will happen for the 9.0 after a few times. I did end up moving my track foward to +2 when it got really wound up but with the steep ebb chop (at 4k opposite the wind) I did stick my nose a few tikmes into the backsides of the wave. Where the wind was lighter by the south side of the golden gate bridge, I did bag the sail out downwind and get some nice pumps in coming down the swells but it just doesn't have that power of the 11.0 or 11.7 down wind. Look like the same forcast today but I will try the 10.0 to get an idea of the range.
|Posted: 5.4.2004 at 08.36|
10.0 was the call today with 20+ in the middle and 15-20k on the inside. I was a little underpowered on the inside while running the course but the big thing I noticed was my angle and speed downwind. Maybe its the double luff or the board but I had more of an advantage downwind than up. I switched from the c3 f soft fin to the c3 e fin and found the latter better in the wound up conditions. It really felt like a debocheit where you could just lean into it with your back foot and not have it spin out but there was some downside to the c3e in the lighter stuff. I noticed it wasn't as quick to get up on a plane as my other fin or at least in the transition from tacking. The c3 f soft would have been a better overall choice today given the holes on the holes around the course.
Also noticable was more downhaul pressure I put on today. That could explain the better top and and bad low end I felt and esp. better performance downwind.
Lots of variables still to work ou.
|Posted: 5.4.2004 at 21.54|
What about the other swedes. What equipment are they on this year. Jona, Per, Jimmy...
You should adress them to this site :)
|Posted: 5.4.2004 at 22.26|
Have you added extra lenght into the mast extension in order to get the boom higher? What is your myboom height http://mytrims.com/help/terminology.asp#3 ?
|Posted: 5.4.2004 at 22.51|
I wasn't trying to get the boom higher by adding more extension but rather rigging by the reccomended numbers. By the way the cut out in this years sails are way higher than last years (no need to slit the sleeve and fold up to get higher range)
The f2004 10.0 calls for 553cm of luff.
I rigged it on sunday with my older 520 mast for the first time and 37cm of base with 5 cm of space between pullies. Although it felt like I overdownhauled the sail, the result could have been from using the older mast. The other times I sailed the 10.0 I used a new 520 mast.
|Posted: 5.4.2004 at 23.02|
Good to know that the cut out is higher this year. I think that it was a bit too low earlier.
|Posted: 6.4.2004 at 11.03|
I am at the office right now and not sailing which is a bummer cause with all the new equipment I need TOW. Last weekend it was definetaly not formula conditions so sunday I stayed on shore (not having slalom gear) and saturday I just went out in maxed conditions with 10.5. No one really was in control so it was more survival of the fittest then a way of training tweaking and tuning. Just learned that my condition is way better then last year but that's no guarantee for good reults only a fundament to build on.
So now I hope for good training conditions this upcoming easterweekend. Need some TOW to try to get any reasonable trim on my new N5 sails, and the first real sailing with the 11.5. I also need to try the R13 soft to give some feedback back to Steve.
I'll be back after sailing............
|Posted: 6.4.2004 at 18.26|
Another overpowered day on the SF bay with 20-35k.
Still trying to find the right settings for the 9.0.
There is definatly a point on the new north sails where if you make the sail too flat it becomes twitchy and unstable. I spoke before about how you could really make the sail flat and not compromise but there is a fine line. In the 30+ gust I had the sail flat flat and besides being unstable, it brought the nose of the board up, despite being at +3 on the track. I came in, lowered the booms and actually moved my boom in one notch and the rig felt more stable.
My impressions of the board so far is that it is becoming easier to ride with more TOW but is a more difficult board to ride compare to last years d2.
|Posted: 7.4.2004 at 14.11|
Jona will be using N5 and SB 158
Jimmy will be on RS4 and Fanatic
Per will not race this year, I think bad back, he will do fleet racing with the Express class.
A lot of things happening in Sweden, a lot of oldtimers returning and lots of new equipment ordered. It will be interesteing to meet all the new sailors at our first competition of the year, end of May. So look out for the Swedes at the Nordic championships.
// Dala //
|Posted: 8.4.2004 at 00.19|
quick report from yesterday on f2004 9.0:
moving the track even further forward to +4 in the steep ebb chop to keep the nose down upwind seemed to help alot.
9.0 felt powerful in 20+ but under that it really lacks
|Posted: 8.4.2004 at 01.29|
For everyone living in Texas, here is a place 3 hrs south of Eagle Pass, Tx in Coahuila Mexico http://groups.msn.com/WINDSURFCOAHUILA
any information you need we´ll be glad to give it to you, and most important, it´s windy
|Posted: 8.4.2004 at 11.34|
I have to wonder why would you stay on the formula gear when it seems really great conditions for slalom gear in SF.????? Or even bump and jump.
Do you really mean 20 to 35 kts??
|Posted: 8.4.2004 at 18.42|
I sail formula in as many conditions as I can get exposed to in SF. You've got to be prepared both mentally and physically when you race (and they do race us in that stuff here) in that kind of breeze and there's no way to get comfortable in it except by going out in sailing with a big sail in 30+ Your "great conditions" for slalom mean a new challenge to me in formula on a 9.0.
I see all these people sailing back and forth to the middle of the SF bay and back on small 5.0's..doing a gybe and coming back, (repeat for an hour)- to me Ive got to wonder what keeps you motivated! But to each his own.
I am focused on getting better in formula in anyway I can. Sure. hoping on slalom gear would probably help me be a better overall sailor but putting together a formula racing campaign with 3-4 rigs, 1 board, 3-4 fins, accesories, travel cost, etc... doesn't leave much room for slalom gear in my budget, nonetheless my van!
See the iwindsurf wind chart I posted from april 3rd at crissy field, 33mph= 30knots. Thats pretty regular SF conditions
|Posted: 11.4.2004 at 09.57|
The racing season has begun in SF again for 2004. North sails were represented well on Friday at first formula event of season - 4 out of top 5 spots in fleet of 18 were north riders....Steve Sylvester 1st, Seth Besse 2nd, Steve Bodner 3rd (all on f2004 rigs) and Al Mirel 4th (on formula warp rig).
I rigged 11.0 in gusty conditions that saw several moments of non planning mark roundings. 11.0 was nice to get out of holes with but sometimes difficult to handle upwind in the stronger gust...all a matter of compromise.
The fog was coming in strong so it made guessing for the laylines all the more interesting! With 4 races and no throwouts there was no room for mistakes. Steve Sylvester had a great night on his f2004 10.0 and ML101- overstanding the windward mark and coming in with speed let him escape the hole that nearly everone got stuck in near the top mark in race 1 and 2. He also proved that handeling a smaller sail is easier as he managed to get out from underneath me as we both tacked together 200 meters from the finish.
The new board seemed to have great angle upwind even with the sail flat. Unlike last year when you pulled the sail flat you lost a lot of angle- much of that seems to have been fixed this year.
Next regatta is next w-end here in SF. I have posted a more detailed race report on the regatta results section of my web page at www.stevebodner.com
|Posted: 11.4.2004 at 18.44|
Typing a litle too fat yesterday...here are the correct results
Friday Night Windsurfing Series
Name Sail # Race #1 Race #2 Race #3 Race #4 Total
1 Steve Sylvester S3 1 2 4 2 9
2 Seth Besse USA 64 2 1 7 1 11
3 Bill Weir M9 4 4 1 4 13
4 Steve Bodner USA 4 7 8 3 3 21
5 Al Mirel 882 9 5 6 7 27
6 Jean Rathle Z 6 7 8 6 27
7 Jason Voss US 8 5 12 2 10 29
8 Chris Radkowski US 1 8 9 10 5 32
9 Mike Percey VYV 14 3 5 11 33
10 Fernando Martinez ARG 1 10 6 9 12 37
11 Rob Hartman 326 3 10 11 18 42
12 Lindon Seed LS 11 11 12 8 42
13 Ben Bamer 22 12 17 14 9 52
14 Andrew Andersen VI II 13 13 13 14 53
15 Arden Andersen EL 11 15 14 15 13 57
16 Lyn Preuit 246 16 15 16 15 62
17 Jim McGrath Mac 18 16 19 18 71
18 Steve Waterhouse 671 18 18 19 18 73
|Posted: 13.4.2004 at 17.25|
Steve and others,
Got out for the first time on my R13 soft this weekend and I need more practise with it but it felt really good. I can feel it flexing and/or twisting under the board while the ride is steady and smooth. I think there is a lot of potential in this fin from light winds up to midstrenght for sure. I rode it with my 11.5 and the next time on 10.5 I will try it also to see how far it can take me.
|Posted: 13.4.2004 at 18.45|
I agree, the softer fins feel much better in the lighter winds, esp. on f2004 board. Its good to get everything dialed in to where you know what to except from your fin/board/rig combo. I am spinning out a lot less on my c3 after a month on the water.
Another local sailor, Soheil got his new f2004 sails this w-end and we sailed yesterdyay for first time together. He was on *148 and me on mistral, both on 10.0s with wind in mid 20's. I can definatly say the new sails dramatically improved his upwind angle and speed. I feel the mistral board was faster downwind as we sailed several upwind and downwind sessions.
|Posted: 16.4.2004 at 08.50|
A light session on the water today with north f2004 11.9 and c3 fx fin in 8-14 knots. The mistral board really seems to be the most comfortable in these conditions, almost like finding the sweet spot. Its amazing how much faster the 11.9 is over the 11.0 in these conditions but I found the bigger sail to reach a certain plateau at around 14-16 knots where the 11.0 was just as fast upwind. Perhaps this is due to the extra sail area and drag. But then again once you turn the corner and head off the wind, the bigger sail really pulls away.
I dont know if the water temperature has much of a difference on characteristics of how the fin performs, but my c3 f fin felt softer when I sailed in it Florida last month. In the cold water of the SF bay, the fin feels stiffer. Anyone expereince this when sailing in different water temperatures?
|Posted: 19.4.2004 at 09.15|
A light w-end of racing here in sf city front for the elvstrom-zellerbach regatta. Conditions were trying on sunday with a 6-12 knot breeze and lots of holes. Sat wind was more consistant with 10-14 in morning and 15-18k in afternoon. I used north 11.7 proto in every race execpt 1 where I switched down to 11.0 on sat afternoon. In all races I used c3 f wiht my mistral f2004 board.
We had small fleet of 5 formula board with the top 2 places going back and forth between myself and Al Mirel on a ml 101 and gaastra 11.5. In the breeze when I switched down to 11.0, Al went to fwarp 9.8 and I was able to really outsail him on the reach leg with more speed. We went back and forth in almost every race and it came down to the last leg of the last race to see you would win. Tied for points, it was winner take all and I was able to pump a little bit harder to beat him across the line to win the regatta. One thing for sure in racing- never count yourself out and never give up. You never know how the person in front of you will take themselves out of the game! (as I proved more than once.) I was well behind on the last leg but caught up amazingly downwind with some luck and the great north/mistral combo.
I have put a more detailed race summary on my site
|Posted: 21.4.2004 at 17.15|
NS F2004 users
What kind of mast extensions you use? I have twisted already 3 different extensions. Because 11,9 sail needs 41 cm extension and there is quite short end (7-9cm) which goes in to mast. I have not found a ext. which is stiff enough. Do I have to use carbon?
|Posted: 21.4.2004 at 18.04|
I know your troubles with the mast extensions for the f2004 sails, I have warped 3 stramlined bases this year as well with the 11.7 at 40 cm. Another guy who sails here puts a mylar shim in the extensiomn that goes in the mast to prevent any play...this works if you havn't bent them already!
As I understaand there are mast extendors available (by north soon!) that fit into the bottom of you mast that make it possible to use less mast extension.
|Posted: 24.4.2004 at 10.18|
Carbon extension will not twist/bent, but there is always a higher risk they break.
Best solution might be the Powerex Extendo, a one piece not adjustable mast extension wich you can cut off in the required length (may this is wat usa4 is reffering to to be put on the market by North also)
This can then be used with a very short or even zero base.
|Posted: 29.4.2004 at 09.13|
Frank- this is what I was refering to and looks like it will become neccessary on the 10.0 and 11.9 on this years north's. I have been on my sails for approx 6 weeks and dont think I'd would trust a base over 35 cm in length. Call it precaution but Ive seen mine bend a little more each time.
The powerex extendo will add some weight but let you use the streamlined 6 pack- this makes the north sails alot easier to downhaul.
|Posted: 1.5.2004 at 08.24|
Back in the wind again this past week- a few 20k+ session with the 10.0. Ive noticed a few things about the f2004 board upwind. The nose really seems to like to come up in the gust. I was having alot of trouble with this at first even with the base at +4. Everytime I got into a gust and tried to sheet in and grind, the nose would come up and I would need to sheet out to settle it down and get going again. One thing Ive tried to do is really make an effort to lean forward more to keep the nose down.
Anyone else feeling this?
|Posted: 4.5.2004 at 14.23|
I've been saling with 10.5 recently with realy strong gusts and with mastfoot at 136. With the boom down 2 cm from my normal heigt I had a massive control. One thing that I do different in stronger winds is that I do not try to rail the board but go for flat sailing so the wind will not catch the board that easily.
Also with an extra pull on my tack strap I could increase the mastfoot pressure even more to keep the nose down. Further more I found that it is better to let the board find its groove and speed then pushing for max angle. If I do that (pushing for angle) I have wheelies more and more. Just let the board do the work. It works for me till now.
What fin where you on?
An other issue I have is that the finbox remains making noise, this is not giving a lot of confidence to the strenght of the box, do you have the same?
|Posted: 4.5.2004 at 23.31|
Yea sailing the board flatter in higher winds helps but still I find when I really want to grind, ie in a gust and have to pinch up a bit to hold it down, the nose comes up. I have been getting some better angle wiht the c3 fx fin but just ordered an e for the stronger stuff, perhaps this will help. Alot of the guys here are sailing with smaller fins and have good angle upwind but I can still walk away downwind.
Regarding the fin box noises, I have none. Are you sure its not youe fin making the noise? I had a r14 that really liked to scream esp. downwind. I flattend out out the trailing edge with a block and sandpaper and it doesnt make noise anymore
|Posted: 5.5.2004 at 09.04|
Thanks for responding. The noise is not my fin singing but my box cracking. I know the differnce and the sound is there no matter which fin I use(deb or C3). I'm afraid that the box is slowely getting soft. Do not know exactly how to check if it is broken already. Just really get frustrated by it cause I like the boards performance so much.
two negative points are that gybing the board is hard when you try to keep planing. Also getting the board onto the plane is a bit harder then with my previous DevilII. The overall performance is definately better for me I have more angle upwind especially in the lighter winds. Hope the finbox will not fail me.
One other thing to ask; Where do you sail your straps now? Do you registrate your sessions inthis database? I can not find them??
Do you try to rail the board downwind? Or just plane flat?
|Posted: 5.5.2004 at 11.03|
How's the fin fit? Does it feel solid even before you screw it down or does it move around a bit? You should try to get a tight fit. There are huge forces involved with big fins and if there's any room for movement, the fin will move in the box and could make a cracking/grinding sound.
|Posted: 13.5.2004 at 23.01|
I dont know what to tell you about your fin box except to have it checked out from the shop you got it from. Mistral is preety good about warranteeing stuff if there was a manufacturing problem.
I havnt been resistering my sessions on a regular basis but getting out several times a week. I did post some stuff on my site www.stevebodner.com
My straps are in the same position as the photo I uploaded earlier.
I talked to another guy here in sf yesterday about the f2004 board and he is really finding it a difficult transition form last years board. At 210lbs he is only sailing with 66 fins. I am still on 70's with good success trying to rail the board to leeward in most conditions. Its a bit like railing a longboard upwind- pressing against the fin sideways moreso than down.
Off the wind, I am keeping pressure on the mast foot while continiously trying to go deeping by railing to leeward as well. This is where the board seems to be the best. Upwind thought its a harder to sail. I really like having the chicken strap further back on the board where I can control it. I'd say I am sailing there 50% of the time here in SF in the current and chop. It's a bit easier to manage to go deeper but you do loose some speed in the middle strap. I did have a problem with my vent screw as the treads wore out on the board and I replaced the metal screw with a plastic one.
|Posted: 13.5.2004 at 23.12|
Hi Steve and others,
I Haven't got the new board yet. I just wonder after reading your comments that is F2004 a good board? I still have Devil II and I have to sail the first two competitions with it anyway. Should I pass the hassle with finding a good fin for the board etc. and rely on devil II-what do you think?
|Posted: 14.5.2004 at 09.01|
I find the F2004 an upgrade for me. BUT remember the f2004 is a totally different concept as where the cut outs are way bigger. When the wind gets stronger it is my believe that these huge cut outs allow the board to tailwalk more then boards like the DevilII and the starboard.
The DevilII and starboard have less deep and huge cut outs wich do control the tailwalking easier. Off course the whole scoop rocker line is part of the deal too, but it are always the boards with these huge cut outs that tend to tailwalk more.
Maybe in SF conditions it is better to sail boards with less huge cut outs like the starboard??
My lightwind (9-14knots) has improved huge in comparison to last year.In stronger winds the DevilII is easier to control and therefore you can probably get a better VMG around the course.
I also struggle with my new N5 sails in the stronger winds so not sure how much of the trouble is because of the board and how much is about the sail.
All in all I will not go back to the devilII cause most of the time we will have winds in between 8-16 knots and that is where I gained performance.
Btw I have not yet used the chicken strap and we had a lot of wind most sessions. I'm sure though that the water state is way easier then in the SF bay so that will be most of the reason.
Last but not least you can see the boards ability at the Europeans at lake Garda where the F2 boards are the same as the F2004 and Devon, Gonzalo and other mistral/f2 users are in front of the pack.
Succes on your first races.
|Posted: 14.5.2004 at 18.38|
I agree the new board is at its best in light to medium winds where as the d2 was somewhat better in stronger winds...perhaps this comes from the fact that more and more racing is taking place in lighter wind venues and they choose a board to reflect the best %'s.
Regarding sails, the double luffs seem to have more range. Most guys here are really happy with their np's and norths while the gaastra guys are still scratching their heads wondering whats up!
I have got 3 out of 4 of my sails dialed in but just can't seem to get my 9.0 to get a decent bottem end. I sailed yesterday in 20-30k and it worked well when lit up but as soon as it lightened up a bit the sail seemed really stalled and sluggish. I played around with the downhaul a few times but think it may have more to do with the batten pressure.
Another good guy here on norths sails has been sailing with quite a few wrinkles in the number 6 batten to open it up. Obviously it looks like it needed tightening but he insisted it performed better.
I also picked up two power extendos for my 10.0 and 11.7...hopefully won't be breaking any more bases. Interesting the same guy, I mentioned before is using a 520 with the extendo in his 11.0. He gets the benifit of the low end of the 11.0 and with a softer mast depowers sooner in the higher end. Something to think about!
We have first regional race this sat in sf bay, shoulod be a good line up!
|Posted: 16.5.2004 at 22.00|
Thanks for your comments! The first ranking race in Finland is in the next weekend 22-23 May.
I still haven't got the board, but I look forward to getting it. Devil II was very competitive in light wind with 12,5 Formula warp. If F2004 is even better I will be invinsible ;-) - just mental training...
|Posted: 17.5.2004 at 23.37|
Good line up at sat at first calcup race of season in berkeley with 20 formula boards on line in 12-17k. Forcast was to build and most rigged 10-11 but it never did build more. I did learn some valuable lessons about rigging the norths.. enough downhaul to go just past max mark seems faster than just below the max mark. Extendor rigged up nice on the 10.0 but didnt get the chance to sail it. I felt pretty fast on c3fx and base on +2. I did fell a bit unable to grind off the line but once I found a lane, I had better vmg footing a bit for speed.
|Posted: 18.5.2004 at 09.30|
I had first session with my new sail and board. We were on the water with my two pals. One had last year SB and NP 11,0 and another had 2004 Fanatic and Nitro5 12,0. Today I tried DebR12H but it was too impracticable for me. I had better speed compared with SB (maybe because he was on the water for second time this year) but Fanatic had better upwind angle and same speed with his DebR13M. Mast track was +1. I couldn’t control the board. The fin was slipping crosswise through water and tried to rail my board too much. I was loosing ground with every higher wave. When we turned downwind I had really good speed and angle and I even controlled the board. But finally I didn’t like the fin. For next session I will have C3 F proto and I look forward to test it. Next weekend we have marathon on the lake of Võrtsjärv. The sail is really good. I can sail with 11,9 up to 10m/s with no problems.
|Posted: 20.5.2004 at 18.34|
Sailing with a bit more downhaul on the norths definalty keeps the nose of the board down more. I was having the problem earlier of always having the nose of the board come up while getting any gust upwind. Now it seems more mangagable, esp with the sails broken in and tuned.
My earlier conclusion about the c3 e seems to be right- faster and deeper than the c3 f downwind, although a little slower to accelerate than the f.